What do you think of repro weapons?

[soundwave]

I recently sold a rare weapon and someone on another post suggested how to "make your own"

I am just curious how everyone feels about making repros?

would you buy a fake?

should they be marked as repros?

Have you ever bought an item thinking it was original only to find out it was a repro?

I personally think they should be marked in some way to identify them as reproductions so they don't make their way into someones collection and get mistaken for originals!

[drbo]

As long it's marked as a repro I don't mind, more so for old and hard-to-find items.

I have real neat repros of General Custer and the two Viking, Odin and Erik from Marx. They have been made in different colors so they won't get mixed for original and are much easier (and cheaper) to buy complete for casual Marx collector like me.

More infos on these:
www.vintagetoyroom.com/new/

[madmartigan37]

I Don't mind repro's as long as there is some way to tell them apart from originals, eg molded in a different color or marked with a R or something. I like repro's more and more as they are cheap and with me giving the toys to my son to play with soon I dont want to be giving him expensive weapons to play with and loose.

[imj]

The concept of repros is great. It's original, and unspoiled intention is to manufacter pieces to help complete a cherished older piece.

My problem with them though is that more often than not there is some subterfuge involved to pass the repro off as the original piece.

When used properly though, with honest intentions, repro pieces are great filler until you can find that elusive gun (or whip.. lol!)

I've actually got a vintage Indian Jones listed on the bay right now with some great repro accessories. The gun with the figure is properly painted and rivals that of the original!

[10incher]

Not really my thing, usually stay away from any repros, though I think my POTF Lando General has a repro cape (which I got maybe 10 years ago). Might go for something as a filler if it was something really, really hard to find.

[madmartigan37]

Wow they had repro's 10 years ago? It is only in the last 5 years or so that I have seen really good repro's on the market.

[10incher]

Yep, at the time it was only vintage Star Wars stuff. I remember going to a toy show back then and seeing a few dealers with boxes full of vintage weapons and thinking WTF!

[brcthrift]

I want to make a repro Randor cape because I have 2 Randors and 0 capes. I want it to look legit though. None of that off color nonsense.

[beckley]

Reproducing old action figures is all well and good if it's obvious they're reproductions, but repro weapons scare me. Now when I'm buying a loose vintage Star Wars figure I have to wonder, is that their original weapon or am I getting hosed? My A- Wing pilot and Imperial Gunner are both missing their guns, it bums me out, but if I can't get the original vintage guns, I'd rather have none at all. Nothing will be scarce anymore if you can just make another, being rare and hard-to - find is what makes something cool and gives us knuckle heads a reason to get up in the morning. Down with repros!

[skagwayskizzer]

I hate repo weapons and such. One reason is most people who sell them try to pass them off as originals and rip people off. The other reason is I choose to spend my money on vintage action figures and accessories not repros. I hate that I feel ill at ease with a couple of my rare Masters of the Universe figures because the accessories may be repros.

[TheWatcher]

Not too many repros around for Masters of the Universe, except for HTF stuff like Randor's spear or the scareglow staff. Also some capes. W8tLifter was really a big repro guy there for awhile ripping off honest buyers. He mostly just painted existing weapons tho. I hate repros myself as over the years I have ended up with several in my star wars collection. I can't tell you how many bad sabers I have found. It really pisses me off when you fork over that extra cash for a figure cause it's complete and it ends up having a fake weapon. Then you end up with an incomplete figure anyways. Unless repros are casted in a different color to distinguish them, I say no repros at all. Too many crooks out there.

[shaunil]

I have to agree with this thought of "different colors or no repro at all.". There are definitely way too many people looking to make a dishonest buck off of someone.

If the pieces are in different colors than the original I'm all for it. It seems like a great way to really fill in some gaps in certain collections. Even being a new guy, I know I would have no problem buying repro weapons and accessories if they're available for something I come across that is lacking the originals.

[ryan0001]

Repro weapons suck, but it doesn't matter what we think about it because it's inevitable. If someone were to put the time into making a good repro weapon, then there's no way you could tell, especially if you don't have a real one to compare it to or about 3 close up pics. Thankfully recast figures are much easier to spot. And even if a hardcopy were in the hands of an unscrupulous person, the entire process to accurately reproduce the plastic and paint would be prohibitive for the vast majority of figures. All I know is you would never, ever see me forking over the money for even an AFAed rare weapon variant.

[3 3/4"collector]

i personally sort of despise the fact that anything is overly hard to find or overly expensive, value has nothing to do with why im collecting so i have no problem with repros.
i dont like the idea of repros being passed off to people as vintage and i know that happens.
the only repro item im aware of having is a backdrop for my vintage star wars cantina. i prefer to display items with fresh bright repro backdrops and keep the real backdrop put away.

the most expensive item i have ever purchased was the butch and sundance western cafe set. i spent years looking for it and the only time i ever actually found one was a sealed one on ebay and it went for about $350 if i recall correctly. if i could have found a repro backdrop and stickers for it and painted a base myself i would have much rather done that.

[bowheadwhale]

I don't know how to make a repro so...
However, if we consider what I did for my "Big Brother 4Speed" (My Little Pony), if I knew how to make repros, I would do it right away; however, I wouldn't feel the need to sell it. You see, as my 4Speed didn't have neither his bandage nor his hat when I bought him (remember that I got him for only a quarter), I made him a bandage and a hat myself, reproducing the best I could the original ones, but made in "papier mâché" and cheap fabric I painted the motives myself on.

[foxmorganm]

I don't mind buying repos... but my biggest concern is those items are made with quality materials. I recently purchased replacement lightsabers for my Darth Vader, Obi-wan, Luke... The concern is if the replacement lightsabers are a bad plastic... it could potentially give off something, or damage the action figures. Ever notice how some plastics seem to sweat, or feel sticky? I question the quality of material.

[hatesminion]

Myself, I think it is going to ruin alot of collections. If they sell or trade them off to others and so on, in time they will be forgotten as repro, and do you think it is always noticeable to tell a repro from a original? Reason I brought this up is I have seen transformers repro stickers, and wondering if they are made distinguishable? Or would you have to be a collector to know.

[shaxper]

I've often used TF repro stickers in order to improve upon my own collection (not to resell deceptively). I can't really see a difference, but a more professional eye might see something that I do not.

I suppose the one thing that can be said in the defense of the repro stickers (beyond the fact that they are not intended to be used deceptively) is that the few people/sites who do them well charge a lot of money for them, so buying a beaten up TF and then buying quality repro stickers, parts and accessories for it costs about the same (if not more) as buying a higher end vintage TF. It really shouldn't cheapen the value of TFs as a result since a lot of money went into the figure whether it's original or indecipherably restored. No one's cheating and making it easy for ANYONE to make/have a nice vintage TF as a result.

[dannyrand]

I know I have a few repro star wars weapons in my collection, but can't remember which ones are repros, so yes the repro had assimilated into the collection. I would have to take the time and go through each one to find out if its a repro. Fortunately for star wars weapons there are good guides online and tests to perform. I could see TF stickers being tough, but a new looking sticker must be a tell for repros.

[mrjayberry]

As somebody who doesn't spend a lot of money on vintage toys anymore (ever since I quit ebay for good) I love the idea. It allows for the nostaligia seekers (again myself) to have what they want at a good price. As an investor I'd probably hate it. There should be a way to tell if it is a repro on all but the smallest of accessories but there probably isn't.

[themadbubbler]

I don't like any repro stuff, unless it is intentionally a bit different from the originals. For example, if you're going to make a repro Sword of Omens for the Lion-O figure, mold it in white or silver, instead of red or orange. Repro stuff can kill our hobby if it goes too far. Where's the fun in searching it out>?

[else3573]

Well, I wish I could find some repro (or vintage) Tron discs and the staff to complete my collection, but in general, I'm not a fan. Too easy to pass them off as legit.

*By the way, I read once that vintage Star Wars toys will sink in water, repros will usually float. I wanted to know if anyone knows if there's any truth to this? I have a small loose Star Wars collection, but they're boxed up in a closet loaded with toys, plus I don't (knowingly anyway) have any repros, so I wouldn't have them to test the theory.

[madmartigan37]

the sink test only works for certain repro's. The best test is the drop test. basically a repro weapon makes a "ting" sound when dropped on a hard surface, and a real weapon makes a much heavier sound. this takes some practice to get used to the sounds. Again this is not 100% and only works until someone makes a better repro.

[The Riddler]

I'm not a fan of repros, but if I ever were to use them, it would only be as a stand in until I got the real thing. Even then, i'd still feel like something was missing and wouldn't like having it.....It makes me feel weird to have repros or even figures missing weapons or accessories. They don't have to be MOC but they gotta be complete!

[tfnut]

A fitting topic for a first post, hopefully I don't step on too many toes...

Repro's and counterfeits have ALWAYS bugged me. Will they harm the hobby? ABSOLUTELY. Just look at the madness that has ensued in the Star Wars community. In fact, just recently there was a fairly major discovery of a guy selling fakes that trickled down to dozens of high end collectors, with the total "damages" adding up to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, and a bunch of very knowledgeable people questioning the validity of their items.

The thing that *really* bugs me about reproduction stuff? No offense, but the idea that repro parts and/or stickers aren't intended to be used deceptively is just naive. In the Transformer market, I know of three major sticker makers. Two of them clearly list their items as reproduction, and one does not. HOWEVER, NONE of them clearly identify the sheets as reproduction.

The fact of the matter is, if you create a reproduction item that isn't easily identifiable as such, even if you're not being blatantly deceptive about it, there are a statisitically significant subsection of deadbeats out there that WILL use it deceptively. Further, there is a significant subsection of people that will forget which things are reproduction. Further, there is a significant subsection of collections that will sadly be sold after the original owners have passed. And guess what? Their heirs won't know which parts are repro.

Any sort of repro part can and should have some sort of failsafe molded into it to distinguish it from an original. Something as simple as adding an initial to small weapons, or an extra tab, or something. This would work for all but the tiniest of parts. I still don't know how you're going to detect a reproduction Heavy Metal (GI Joe) mic.

Again, no offense, but the idea that hardcore collectors will always find a way to spot the difference is naive. First, we're talking about miniscule differences that can often only be discerned with the product in hand. Secondly, if something can ONLY be detected by the hardcore collectors, then it necessarily WILL harm the market, because the casual collector will either become gunshy on items or will unknowingly buy repro items. If they unknowingly buy repro items, then that is effectively one more of that item in circulation. So supply goes up by one, demand goes down by one, thus prices go down.

Any sort of non-identifiable repro is a slow growing cancer to the hobby, if you ask me.
And don't get me started on the counterfeits (such as the slew of G1 accurate Transformer counterfeits available now).

[3 3/4"collector]

well first of all i think any type of repro should be marked in some way.
that being said i dont really care. i like the toys i like and i want them, and i dont care if they are 30 years old or brand new reissues or reproductions. if it looks like the toy i want and isnt just totally cheap quality than i am pretty happy to get it for a more realistic price.
so while i do have sympathy for eletist vintage collectors that pay a fortune for vintage items. at the same time if they have a weapon that they cant even tell if its vintage or repro than whats the problem? i dont mean this to sound as harsh as im sure its coming across, i just cant find a good way to word it. but seriously if they cant tell its a repro then whats the problem other than being upset that you paid some inflated vintage price when you could have just paid a repro price for an item that you cant even tell apart, which is certainly the path i would have chosen. i never ever look at my toys as an investment or a value.

i know this sounds dumb, but as a collector it has sort of always offended me or bothered me on some level when i see collectors that are just value minded. i just somehow feel like that isnt or at least shouldnt be the mind set of toy collecting. they started out as cheap mass produced merchandise. at this very moment i am thinking of buying a repro vinyl jawa cloak and gun. because i have always wanted a vinyl cloak jawa but certainly will never be able to afford a real one, and why do i not deserve to have one as much as anyone else does?
its like if i love some van gogh paintingand i want a poster of it to put on my wall. i dont care if its the real van gogh painting, in fact i prefer its not. i also dont care if its not some limited edition museum quality 1923 print of the van gogh painting. i have just as much right to gaze upon it and admire it as anyone else does so i buy an $8 poster.

[den82]

Go ask this question at rebelscum.com and see how it transpires.

[bowspearer]

tfnut, you're oversimplifying that point about counterfeits. I know the incident you're referring to because it gave me a scare with my M.A.S.K. first shots.

What you're talking about there is an individual selling counterfeit hardcopies with the intention of fraud; what is being discussed here is someone openly advertising repro weapons. I realise there's some potential for things going bad, but I'd hardly compare it the the hard-copies scandal in the SW community recently or the slew of Chinese G1 knockoffs on the market of late, where fraud is actually being attempted.

[kylefromdirtnapp]

I personally don't mind them, but I think they should molded in alternate colors ala MOTU/GI Joe weapons packs. If I could mold weapons, I would do a Thundercats weapons pack in alternate colors. I do not care about repros, I would think the only ones I have were for SW figs, but I'm a casual collector of them. Sometimes I think "If you can't tell the difference, who cares?"

You know, I would not want a repro TF accessory, unless it was something that was outrageously expensive for the original. Most of the time for TF's, the repros cost as much as the originals so It's pointless.

[tfnut]

3 3/4" Collector: The difference is, they don't make $8 posters that virtually mimic a Van Gogh. There is, however, an entire cottage industry that has been developed to replicate expensive art, and then attempt to pass it off as legitimate (for a significantly higher markup than just what you would expect to pay for a "fabulously done reproduction", of course).

I don't think there are too many of us that collect *just* for the value, but at the same time, we usually pay money for this stuff. Sometimes a lot of money.

"Value" is a funny concept in our society. We don't really *use* diamonds or gold for much. Would the average person be happy if they purchased a fake gold watch but paid for real gold? Would a significant other be happy with a cubic zircona ring that you paid diamond prices for? In either case, the recipient isn't likely to find out for some time down the line... so what's the problem, right?

Back to the general discussion:
For an accessory to be repro-ed, it must have relatively significant value (or add value to the toy). If there's no EASILY distinguishable trait to the repro, then it WILL trickle down. Even if something isn't repro-ed just for fraud's sake, there WILL come a time whe the repros get into the mainstream.

Let's say I pass away, and have a collection of toys that in and of themselves aren't particularly rare. But its rare to find them complete with all accessories. If I've outfitted my figures with non-marked repro accessories, do you think my son, no matter how much he may love me, will remember which ones I told him have repro accessories when he goes to sell them because he (gasp!) decides he doesn't want to keep 3 rooms full of rubber and plastic around? Multiple that by dozens (hundreds? thousands?), and you put a significant dent into the value of many collections.

I understand that they're toys. It'd be nice if we could buy everything we want, and that it was all affordable. I'm all for MARKED repros. I'm all for the idea that instead of paying $100 for a rare, complete Toy X, we should be able to pay $10 for Toy X and $10 for repro accessories.

But is that fair to to the guys that pay $100 for an original $100 Toy X? Especially if they pay $100 for an original, but get repro? Unless you want to make the argument that we should all become socialists, that everything should ONLY be valued for its utilitarian worth, that there should be nothing collectible, then I can't wrap my head around the notion that an INDISTINGUISHABLE repro is OK.

If you BELIEVE repros should be marked, but buy unmarked repros, then we're not likely to get marked repro's.