|
|
Post by 10incher on Jan 12, 2011 20:33:17 GMT -6
OK, the poll has run its course and it looks like their will be a new rule on the forum.
Members are not to post live Ebay auctions that are not theirs, anywhere in the forums for discussion. The reason for this is that it increases the exposure of the item and drives up the price for those who had found that auction by normal search means.
Once an auction has ended, then it is fine to post a link to it for discussion. Until then, if a live auction is posted (once again, that is not your own) it will be automatically deleted and the poster will receive a warning against their account
|
|
snipertoys
Guest
Apr 16, 2024 3:06:09 GMT -6
|
Post by snipertoys on Jan 12, 2011 20:56:10 GMT -6
Absolutely not. If it's your auction and you trying to increase bidding, go ahead and post it. If you are willing to help another member out, PM them, but don't post it on the forums.
|
|
|
|
Post by it better be red on Jan 12, 2011 21:07:02 GMT -6
I'm fairly new here, but I'll chime in and vote to let the live auctions be linked here. I have already received some great ID help on this site...made a few trades...and learned some good tips. i wouldn't mind a heads up on an auction that I might have missed in my ebay searching.
|
|
|
|
Post by rocklord74 on Jan 12, 2011 22:40:11 GMT -6
I don't really see the harm in it. If I know a few people are looking for it, this is a good way to reach them all at one time. Just my opinion, that's all.
|
|
|
|
Post by figurecollector on Jan 13, 2011 5:52:13 GMT -6
I am against posting live auctions. I do my research and if others posters are interested enough, they can or should research it themselves.
I do agree that if it is your own auction that is is acceptable to post it here to boost your sales. I also agree with sending a PM to someone directly to alert them of a pending sale. My opinion is that the only other time an auction should be posted is after it has concluded.
|
|
|
|
Post by dannyrand on Jan 13, 2011 15:02:45 GMT -6
I have no problem with posting live auctions.
|
|
|
|
Post by bowspearer on Jan 13, 2011 23:33:48 GMT -6
I vote no. The thing is that most of us here are pretty honourable and if someone really wants something, we'll hold off on bidding on it to let them have it.
The problem however is that these boards are public. While all of us might be honourable enough to look after one another, what about the guests who may have no such reservations. The same could be said for lurkers with member accounts.
I'm all for us helping each other out, but I agree with figurecollector- PMs are the best way to do it. Heck, it could even really work if someone posts a wanted ad on here and people respond in the thread with "PM sent". Who cares if someone gets multiple pms containing the same auction as a result, at least they're being helped out.
In short, short of making the forums private and accessible only to known and active members, what we would and would not do really isn't a safeguard against the concerns raised by Chad.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ghouldrool on Jan 14, 2011 4:22:44 GMT -6
Noooooh... I'm an 'under the radar' auction bidder, I thrive upon finding the wrongly listed crap. And subsequently hope nobody else has seen it. If you see something on the 'Bay and it's listed wrongly and you do not intend to bid yourself, you should NOT, repeat, NOT post it in a forum just for fits and giggles. We have had enough quarrels about this sort of thing in the past.
|
|
|
|
Post by jongernaut on Jan 15, 2011 18:34:52 GMT -6
NO - There are ways to discuss them without linking to them or saying what they are listed under. Seasoned collectors have put a ton of effort into research and it's not fair if some noobs drive up the price, or snipe it last second.
No offense, even i'm a noob compared to many people here.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadpool0207 on Jan 19, 2011 14:48:20 GMT -6
I say let free speech rein so what if it drives up the price of an auction.... if you want it that badly get a better job .....there just toys no ones going to die because they dont have the last figure they need to complete a series I get out bid on stuff all the time yeah I get bummed out about it but its not that big of a deal ....call me crazy but in the end when your dead will it really matter how many toys you have? or how much there worth ?
|
|
|
|
Post by bowspearer on Jan 19, 2011 21:53:29 GMT -6
deadpool, no offense, but if that's you're attitude, then why are you a part of an action figure collecting community?
At the end of the day, the whole point of this place being here is because people are passionate about toys. Wondering why people might care about their collections here is kind of like wondering why people might be heavily political in a political party to quote a milder example (there are more extreme ones I can bring up though).
Furthermore, the whole point of a community is that people not only share their passions, but help each other out. The attitude of "every man for themselves" could not be more contradictory to that. Yes collecting is just one part of our lives, but so what, there's no law which says it can't be an important one- especially on a forum dedicated exclusively to it.
Perhaps we're not the ones in need of a reality check here like you so assuredly seem to think we are.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadpool0207 on Jan 20, 2011 1:27:27 GMT -6
Not being able to post a link to a live auction helps no one out ...... who cares if it drives the price up its an auction site thats the way it works when it comes to an auction it is every man/woman for themselves thats the issue I love toys but I dont think its right that something talking about a live auction thats mislabeled and has something of value in it should be restricted this is basically the same conversation that went on with that galaxy warrior knock off or whatever it is in the ID section apparently someone knows but they dont want to say like its some big secret ! that really helps out the person who doesnt know what figure hes holding in is hand thats community for ya
If people really care about there collections and are really passionate about them then they shouldnt care about the price
Your argument doesnt hold water
|
|
|
|
Post by The Riddler on Jan 20, 2011 2:13:47 GMT -6
Both sides have good points, but IMO I think its fine...isn't it the same as telling people in your everyday life and not just on this or another forum? Everyone that gets upset about this sort of thing should just chill out or you'll become one of those dudes that just up and quits collecting because he hates the way other people choose to be. As far as noobs taking away from seasoned pros...since when is this a gang or the army. Your expierience and time put in means nothing except that you know more and have more..not that youre entitled.
|
|
|
|
Post by bowspearer on Jan 20, 2011 3:08:34 GMT -6
Not being able to post a link to a live auction helps no one out ...... who cares if it drives the price up its an auction site thats the way it works when it comes to an auction it is every man/woman for themselves thats the issue I love toys but I dont think its right that something talking about a live auction thats mislabeled and has something of value in it should be restricted this is basically the same conversation that went on with that galaxy warrior knock off or whatever it is in the ID section apparently someone knows but they dont want to say like its some big secret ! that really helps out the person who doesnt know what figure hes holding in is hand thats community for ya If people really care about there collections and are really passionate about them then they shouldnt care about the price Your argument doesnt hold water Your argument is nothing short of ridiculous and compares apples to oranges. For starters, noone is saying to not mention them at all. What people are saying is to PM them to any interested parties as opposed to listing them in the public domain where it can be every man for themselves. Secondly, this isn't eBay, this is an action figure collecting forum/community where we actively help each other out, as you rightly pointed out. Yes eBay actions are a case of everyone for themselves, but as I have just said, this is not eBay. This is a community where we're meant to be helping each other out. so what if it drives up the price of an auction.... if you want it that badly get a better job ..... Excuse me but who the hell died and made you the omniscient judge and jury on toy collecting all of a sudden? So what, you should only be able to own certain figures if you earn a certain income level all of a sudden (which is exactly what you're saying here)? Do I even need to point out just how much this attitude smacks not of free speech but of blatant elitism. You then try and justify this by saying: call me crazy but in the end when your dead will it really matter how many toys you have? or how much there worth ? Again, who died and made you the omniscient judge and jury on what people can and cannot be passionate about and to what degree? You talk about free speech (which has at the very heart of it the concept of freedom of expression), yet what you've said here is the complete opposite of that in the form of financial elitism. Like I said, if you believe in the worst aspects of the hobby (as in everyone stepping on one another for the sake of a figure as opposed to us all helping each other out- which your posts here clearly indicate you are), then what are you doing in a community which its owner has said on many occasions is about helping people and being passionate about ? |
|
|
|
Post by bowspearer on Jan 20, 2011 3:20:57 GMT -6
Both sides have good points, but IMO I think its fine...isn't it the same as telling people in your everyday life and not just on this or another forum? Everyone that gets upset about this sort of thing should just chill out or you'll become one of those dudes that just up and quits collecting because he hates the way other people choose to be. As far as noobs taking away from seasoned pros...since when is this a gang or the army. Your expierience and time put in means nothing except that you know more and have more..not that youre entitled. That's the problem, the degree of elitism displayed by some people here. A huge collection shouldn't be an indication of how much money you have. Why shouldn't someone on a limited income be able to own a boxed or sealed collection of a toyline they love? Why can't we quietly point out to someone who loves a certain toyline, a fantastic auction which has slipped under the radar and might otherwise be completely out of their price range. Hell, I wouldn't own my M.A.S.K. protos and probably wouldn't be able to have afforded them for normal prices were it not for a member pointing out the for sale thread for them on rebelscum.com to me in a fairly "on the quiet" manner. Why shouldn't I have been given that chance? Why shouldn't we all help each other out in similar situations? It honestly seems like some people here need to remember what being in a community where we help each other out entails..... |
|
|
|
Post by The Riddler on Jan 20, 2011 4:05:18 GMT -6
I'm gonna stay neutral to save pointless arguing. I can see where everyone is coming from. Maybe there is a solution maybe not, but it doesn't matter too much for me. Ebay is just a small part of my collecting world. It is great and all but the best deals are most certainly had by getting up early and hitting the yard sales, flea markets, shows etc... bowspearer...you are right, this is a community and we should all try to help each other out...there are too many threads with constant arguing with no resolution..it really is stupid and time consuming...and does anyone ever really feel accomplished when its over?
|
|
|
|
Post by bowspearer on Jan 20, 2011 6:07:01 GMT -6
Ebay is just a small part of my collecting world. It is great and all but the best deals are most certainly had by getting up early and hitting the yard sales, flea markets, shows etc... If you have access to them, I agree, but the problem some of us have is the tyranny of distance. For example, there are very few flea markets around here and the vast bulk of them don't have people selling toys, or when they do sell them, it's usually the newer stuff- bargains aren't even an option. Likewise, there's like 2 toy shows I think in the whole of Australia that are options, and one of them is over 1000 miles away if not just over 2,000 miles away (in Adelaide and I'm in Sydney). In many cases, it's those online toy store, forum, and eBay auctions which form my avenue for bargain hunting and I know I'm not the only one in that position. As such, eBay needs to be considered as one of a limited number of avenues which some of us here have when thinking about how to approach this. Heck half the stuff I collect is so obscure in terms of Australian releases that it never shows up in even local eBay auctions. |
|
|
|
Post by The Riddler on Jan 20, 2011 6:30:23 GMT -6
completely understood
|
|
|
|
Post by deadpool0207 on Jan 20, 2011 12:09:17 GMT -6
If your really going to make a big fuss over this then you shouldnt be able to talk about your own auctions basically that means its ok for you to try and get as many people alerted to your own auction to get a higher price but not other peoples that sounds alot like every man for themselves to me the sellers are selling on ebay for the same reason everyone else is ...money I look in the the odd toy ebay listings all the time and on a few occasions have let a seller know they have something thats worth more then what they are asking
How is it right that if 6 people are looking for the same thing but only one of those people knows someone else who sees the auction so they tell that one person but the 5 other people over looked it
Fact of the matter is you should be free to talk about anything you want , you start putting restrictions on certain topics and it opens the door for everything else to be restricted
|
|
|
|
Post by rocklord74 on Jan 20, 2011 16:50:45 GMT -6
I think that I might of started this whole problem when I posted the pigface auction from the sunman line. I didn't do it to start a war or nothing. I just know a few people interested in it and can't remember all of them so I posted it so everyone here could see it. But I do feel if your allowed to promote your own auctions to drive up the price then you should be able to do any auctions. I do apologize if this is pissing people off, never meant to, just trying to help some fellow collectors out. I really thought I'd make people happy, instead the opposite happened.  |
|
|
|
Post by bowspearer on Jan 20, 2011 18:09:38 GMT -6
I do apologize if this is pissing people off, never meant to, just trying to help some fellow collectors out. But see this is where our own auctions and auctions of interest are basically like comparing apples and oranges. When it comes to our own auctions, we're trying to help each other out by getting the auctions we list, maximum exposure and ideally in turn, maximum profits. With auctions of interest though, we're trying to help each other out in terms of getting pieces for our collections. That means minimum exposure and minimum ending prices. Honestly Rocklord, the problem wasn't your intention, but your execution. How's this of a solution- when we spot an auction of interest or website of interest selling a particular line, we mention what we've found, but not the source, and if anyone expresses interest, we PM them. Heck if multiple people express interest, they can work out themselves who gets dibs on it before the link is given to take things to the nth- it wouldn't be the first time people here have deliberately missed out on something because someone else had a greater need for it. That way we're spreading the word and helping each other out, without causing a bidding war because of some lurkers or people doing a google search who isn't even a member of the community. |
|
|
|
Post by 10incher on Jan 20, 2011 19:14:23 GMT -6
OK guys can the arguing over this. This debate has actually been around the site for quite a number of years. Lets keep things on track and try and not turn this thread into 3 pages of bickering. If it continues any longer, I will simply delete any threads in this post that have anything to do with arguing.
What we are trying to find is an answer either way from as many site members as we can so we can decide to put this debate either to rest or create a site rule on it.
For anyone who hasn't yet answered on the poll, please record your vote! We need to hear from all of you.
|
|
|
|
Post by figurecollector on Jan 20, 2011 20:05:16 GMT -6
The topic has been up for a week now and we have 11 votes.
Chad wants to leave it up for awhile longer so that everyone has an opportunity to weigh in on this topic.
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by bowspearer on Jan 21, 2011 7:49:57 GMT -6
Having come back to this thread and getting a bit of a fresh perspective, I actually want to refine what i previously said. I realise that I could have simply edited my previous post, but I thought that this possible solution was too important to be potentially mistaken for a past post and missed.
Actually Chad, I don't think the problem isn't so much whether things get posted but the way they get posted. I guess with what I'm about to say it's more a case of them being referenced. In fact, considering what it better be red and rocklord74 have said in their responses, this would actually be a solution which would satisfy the half of the current "yes" votes, while satisfying the "no" votes at the same time.
The problem with them going public is that lurkers or guests, who use this community for info but aren't a part of it can take advantage of the info whereas if it was just those of us who are active members links could be posted publicly and things would run smoothly. The end result is a bidding war on what would have otherwise been an auction which would have gone unnoticed and which someone could have gotten for a pretty affordable price.
At the same time killing off mentioning them altogether stops members from being helped out with stuff they otherwise wouldn't have found- a) because unless someone has discussed something at length to the point where anyone who's a regular knows what they're after as a priority, they're going to miss out and b) it relies on the person who found it having to remember who might be after what they found.
However there is a solution which would reasonably keep both sides happy.
What could work quite well is if people mention what they found but not where in a new thread. Heck, in the Marketplace section there could even be a new board for people to post what they've found in its own thread, but not where they found it.
From there, people who were interested could post their interest and decide amongst themselves who got dibs on it. Once that had been decided the person who got dibs on it could be PMed with a link to the auction or store.
That way interested members of the community could still be made aware of it (it better be red's concern) and those who found the auction don't have to try and remember who is into what (rocklord74's issue), but it allows us to keep the knowledge within the group and actually help out the group members as opposed to some lurker taking advantage and sabotaging the whole thing.
As a flow on effect too, it would mean that other interested parties would actually have to participate in the community if they wanted to be helped out by this.
To me, this seems like the "option c)" that is needed here.
|
|
|
|
Post by figurecollector on Jan 21, 2011 9:17:55 GMT -6
We are looking into another possible solution as well. More details once we review it some more.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadpool0207 on Jan 21, 2011 10:39:02 GMT -6
My only question: How do you know its the guests and lurkers who see posted auctions there are alot of people who probably have never been to this site and a majority of people have computers theres probably 3 million or more ebay members as it is and only 358 or so guests on this site alone
Im not saying your idea is bad but I really just dont see it changing anything
Is it possible to make a members only area that would keep atleast the guests out? You dont want to single everyone out there are handful of "lurkers" that use this site for all kinds of stuff
|
|
|
|
Post by bowspearer on Jan 21, 2011 12:11:56 GMT -6
My only question: How do you know its the guests and lurkers who see posted auctions there are alot of people who probably have never been to this site and a majority of people have computers theres probably 3 million or more ebay members as it is and only 358 or so guests on this site alone Im not saying your idea is bad but I really just dont see it changing anything Except that the auctions you're referring to are going to be the highly visible ones which don't tend to pass under the radar. Furthermore, you're talking about 3 million people on ebay, but how m,any of those are going to be interested in action figures, let alone the more obscure stuff- a very small percentage of those. Therefore of those who might stumble across an obscure auction, there's a very small probability of them being interested in it. Contrast that with this site where those 358 or so guests you bring up are all going to be into action figures and of those looking at a particular thread there is going to be a high probability of interest. Therefore while there is certainly a chance of people who are interested in something randomly coming across an auction that is under the radar, there's a greater chance of it being spotted due to the word being spread around, especially where an auction has been wrongly listed and the figure is incredibly obscure. Is it possible to make a members only area that would keep atleast the guests out? You dont want to single everyone out there are handful of "lurkers" that use this site for all kinds of stuff The key word there being use (as opposed to participate). By this logic we should do away with the rule about people not being able to go and list their stuff on eBay right after people have helped them out because it interferes with lurkers being able to use this community. All this does is look after the community of people who are active here and put their needs first. If lurkers don't like it then surely the solution is for them to simply actively participate and therefore be a part of the community, is it not? |
|
|
|
Post by figurecollector on Jan 21, 2011 12:35:31 GMT -6
One thing about the "guests". The cannot see the ID thread or the Vintage and Modern sales threads. The can only see the upper section of forum topics. Go onto action-figures.ca without signing on and you will see what I mean. In order to see them, they have to sign up. The problem then becomes if they become members and can see these areas and never (or rarely) come back once they learn what they can.
I did some number crunching the other day which I shared with Chad. Of the 2,488 members at the time, 1,029 had never made a single post in the forum. A total of 431 had made 1 post, 229 had made 2 posts, 122 had made 3 posts and another 209 had made 9 posts or less. That is 2,020 members. Then there is the other end of the spectrum. Not all of those with the most posts are "active". Almost half of those with 50 posts or more had not logged on in the past 30 days (some go back years).
|
|
|
|
Post by deadpool0207 on Jan 21, 2011 14:34:25 GMT -6
Even a small percent of 3 mill is alot of people I search what you would call under the radar toy auctions all the time I never have any trouble finding them and Im sure there are alot of people that collect the obscure figures that arent part of this site its a wild guess saying that not that many people collect obscure figures theres no certainty to that like I said before its a rule that in the end isnt going to make that big of a difference
And as far as the rule about listing your stuff ID'd stuff on Ebay I think its a silly rule no one forces anyone to ID other peoples stuff plus its there stuff they should be able to do with it what they want I ID stuff all the time I never expect anything in return its ridiculous to me to think you should get something out of it just because you ID'd it There was a guy not to long ago that had a question about something he had that was apparently worth alot of money heck he had 2 and someone offered him 100.00 for both and they were worth way more than that But thats a different topic all together
FigureCollector , Isnt there a way to maybe delete accounts that appear abandoned or that dont seem to be really doing anything I know I dont make that many posts but I do talk in the ID section alot I dont know f or how that would figure into it but Im sure if you have more members than you have people actually using the site there is a way to weed out an account thats unused or shows no real activity
just a thought that might be alot of work tho
|
|
|
|
Post by figurecollector on Jan 21, 2011 15:08:49 GMT -6
Deadpool0207, I had some ideas in mind when I became a Mod recently and that certainly was one of them. The dead link Ebay forum and dead link Collection/Rogues Gallery forum had higher priority as did updating the Trader Review thread, all of which have now been completed. If I can get the "power" to do it, I definitely am going to weed out the non-participating members. Chad has limited time here and is the only one with the "power" presently to delete members.
We do still want the voting to continue as I may not have expressed that the other things we may consider would be a part of the solution, not a complete remedy. The voting on this issue would make up a part of the final solution.
I will say that your previous comments contain something very close to a possible solution.
|
|
